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Donald Trump (and other election 2016 talk)
Morpheus414
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Anybody but fkn Bernie is a win. You can't honestly expect to raise the minimum wage to $15 and not expect at least a 6% increase in unemployment nationally and an increase in crime rate that destroys the standard of living to not occur. The average American's knowledge of economics on an even basic supply and demand and price fixing level is embarrassing. That's why we have three incompetent candidates like Trump, Bernie, and Hillary getting all of the media attention for blatantly stupid policies.
Actually I shouldn't say they're incompetent; they're all much more intelligent than I am for sure. They know all too well the long-term consequences of their policies. but all of the political appeal bullshit nowadays is "what am I gonna do for your little group, and this group, and that group" and it all focuses on one particular group of people individually within the context of conversation at the expense of the long-term outcomes of the policy on the entire nation as a whole. And yet the ignorant people that plague this country fall for all of the bullshit because it seems to solve all of their problems in the short-run.
'But to consider all the chief effects of a proposed course on everybody often requires a long, complicated, and dull chain of reasoning. Most of the audience finds this chain of reasoning difficult to follow and soon becomes bored and inattentive" (Economist Hazlitt wrote this in 1945 and it appears that no one listened). Candidates capitalize on this every year in order get the votes, and thus the national debt continues to soar through the roof, and nobody actually knows why. Because the American people don't have enough sense to figure it out themselves, they just wanna find some asshat who says he can fix it all in one term. It's pathetic really.
Anybody but fkn Bernie is a win. You can't honestly expect to raise the minimum wage to $15 and not expect at least a 6% increase in unemployment nationally and an increase in crime rate that destroys the standard of living to not occur. The average American's knowledge of economics on an even basic supply and demand and price fixing level is embarrassing. That's why we have three incompetent candidates like Trump, Bernie, and Hillary getting all of the media attention for blatantly stupid policies.
Actually I shouldn't say they're incompetent; they're all much more intelligent than I am for sure. They know all too well the long-term consequences of their policies. but all of the political appeal bullshit nowadays is "what am I gonna do for your little group, and this group, and that group" and it all focuses on one particular group of people individually within the context of conversation at the expense of the long-term outcomes of the policy on the entire nation as a whole. And yet the ignorant people that plague this country fall for all of the bullshit because it seems to solve all of their problems in the short-run.
'But to consider all the chief effects of a proposed course on everybody often requires a long, complicated, and dull chain of reasoning. Most of the audience finds this chain of reasoning difficult to follow and soon becomes bored and inattentive" (Economist Hazlitt wrote this in 1945 and it appears that no one listened). Candidates capitalize on this every year in order get the votes, and thus the national debt continues to soar through the roof, and nobody actually knows why. Because the American people don't have enough sense to figure it out themselves, they just wanna find some asshat who says he can fix it all in one term. It's pathetic really.
Great name/post combo bro!
do you realize how far quantity supplied of workers would exceed quantity demanded of workers if the minimum wage were increased? Do you realize how devastating a binding price floor would exist at even a level of say $10 or $11? Of course you don't. Hell you probably don't even know what the fuck that is, i hope you go look it up for your own benefit. It helps with actually being able to evaluate policies reasonably instead of just making assumptions about what should be done on a prescriptive basis.
Edit: I shouldn't assume so quickly; you may know those terms. Any person who's taken a basic high school economics course would. but if you knew how to apply them to tangible issues, then you wouldn't want the minimum wage to increase. Surpluses in labor are never good.
do you realize how far quantity supplied of workers would exceed quantity demanded of workers if the minimum wage were increased? Do you realize how devastating a binding price floor would exist at even a level of say $10 or $11? Of course you don't. Hell you probably don't even know what the fuck that is, i hope you go look it up for your own benefit. It helps with actually being able to evaluate policies reasonably instead of just making assumptions about what should be done on a prescriptive basis.
Edit: I shouldn't assume so quickly; you may know those terms. Any person who's taken a basic high school economics course would. but if you knew how to apply them to tangible issues, then you wouldn't want the minimum wage to increase. Surpluses in labor are never good.
Ur an idiot. What makes you the absolute authority on economic policy when all of us other plebs are idiots and cant even basic reasoning? you getting a Econ Ph.D. somewhere or something? did u pull a jake and read an abstract or two?
Also so failing to see how increasing minimum wage a buck or two is gunna make the labor market explode. can you clarify? Don't some states already have a $10 min?
Also u never answered my question. do u think the minimum wage is currently at an except able level?
Do you at least think the federal minimum wage should keep up with inflation?You can't honestly expect to raise the minimum wage to $15 and not expect at least a 6% increase in unemployment nationally and an increase in crime rate that destroys the standard of living to not occur.
nah, fuck poor people
Does everybody need to work anymore? I understand work from an ethical/character perspective, this is not here my point. Since we no longer need e.g. manufacturing jobs-- cheaper elsewhere or with robots-- since those labor costs have evaporated, could that surplus go towards paying people simply to stay out of trouble? Is there a natural economic equilibrium price where, say, a U Chicago grad can do no economically productive work at all but still be paid to use Instagram?
I think it's fine where it is.
ideally, it should maybe be decreased slightly, but that would never happen. People probably would never support that; no policy-maker in support of that would get voted in. Keeping it where it is wouldn't really be a problem in the long run though at the projected rate of inflation we see.
do you realize how far quantity supplied of workers would exceed quantity demanded of workers if the minimum wage were increased? Do you realize how devastating a binding price floor would exist at even a level of say $10 or $11? Of course you don't. Hell you probably don't even know what the fuck that is, i hope you go look it up for your own benefit. It helps with actually being able to evaluate policies reasonably instead of just making assumptions about what should be done on a prescriptive basis.
Edit: I shouldn't assume so quickly; you may know those terms. Any person who's taken a basic high school economics course would. but if you knew how to apply them to tangible issues, then you wouldn't want the minimum wage to increase. Surpluses in labor are never good.
Ur an idiot. What makes you the absolute authority on economic policy when all of us other plebs are idiots and cant even basic reasoning? you getting a Econ Ph.D. somewhere or something? did u pull a jake and read an abstract or two?
Also so failing to see how increasing minimum wage a buck or two is gunna make the labor market explode. can you clarify? Don't some states already have a $10 min?
Also u never answered my question. do u think the minimum wage is currently at an except able level?
I never said that anything I was saying was revolutionary. I'm saying things that have been said before, and I made that clear. I just think people ignore this line of thinking too often when thinking about these issues. I said that for the most part, you could use economic concepts from a high school class to understand the high opportunity cost that exists when you raise the minimum wage. Just because i said that doesn't mean I think your intellectually inept, i just think that your ignorant of the conepts and how to use them - there's a difference.
I'm only pursuing an economic bachelor's, and I've taken only 3 upper-level courses, so yeah I'm no expert. Again, I never said I was; but I don't believe you have to know the advanced concepts to realize the consequences. All I'm saying is that if people understood things like price controls and deadweight losses at a basic level, then I don't think they would support this policy.
Yeah, minimum wage is a highly debated topic, and no, we're obviously not going to solve it here, but i'm just stating my opinion like anyone else who gets that sort of itch when they see reasoning they personally feel is flawed.
Also, I already explained to you the binding price floor that would exist at a level of $10 or $11. There would be surplus at that level because for most of these low-wage jobs the quantity supplied exceeds quantity demanded. I'm not gonna go pull out a source to support that, it's inevitable. And no i don't think the labor market would "explode" if you wanna put it that way, and the word "devastating" i used is relative. Surpluses cause inefficiencies in the market, and multiple inefficient policies that mount over time can be "devastating."
Lit. Review on Minimum Wage Research: http://cobe.boisestate.edu/allendalton/files/2014/02/Neumark.Wascher_Min...
Considering the decrease in the real value in the minimum wage in a vacuum can be misleading; should also see what has happened with other policies, such as the EITC: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/the-minimum-wage-aint-what-...
Davo, pick up Nozick's ASU and flip to page 18, first paragraph.
And the old "what makes you think you're the end all be all, and we're just a bunch of plebs" excuse is getting old. People always give that regurgitated bullshit excuse when they can't actually refute anything that's being said, so they go off and make their aggressor out to be some asshole who thinks he knows it all.
I already said in the first post, I don't think there is any one candidate who can fix all of the problems quickly, and I said they're all likely much more informed than myself on these matters, so what makes you think that I believe I'm the ultimate wisdom and can fix everything that they can't? Tired of that nonsense, you just honestly don't know what the fuck you're talking about and that's that. It doesn't mean I think everyone else in America is ignorant of the concepts, but most of them in fact are. All the videos out there that interview some of these candidate's supporters are pretty good evidence of that.
I think it's fine where it is.
ideally, it should maybe be decreased slightly, but that would never happen. People probably would never support that; no policy-maker in support of that would get voted in. Keeping it where it is wouldn't really be a problem in the long run though at the projected rate of inflation we see.
Decreased slightly? Da fuck? You know the cost of living and inflation goes up over time right? That would just be crippling people who are just scraping by as it is. I don't think it should be raised to as high as $15, but something that is at least reasonable. I think of it this way, if you take away minimum wage pay for people that are unfortunate enough to be around the poverty line (that's about 45 million people) are going to spend less. What is that going to do to the economy and all the other businesses depending on their business? They'll be seeing less costumers. Now I'm inclined to believe that if you increase minimum wage to a reasonable amount over a period of time already rich as fuck companies ie walmart company/family with net worth of 140 billion aren't going to be crippled by this. By doing so they should all be seeing more business because people actually have the money to spend and buy stuff. It's a cycle, and it's only going to work if you feed into it.
I think it's fine where it is.
ideally, it should maybe be decreased slightly, but that would never happen. People probably would never support that; no policy-maker in support of that would get voted in. Keeping it where it is wouldn't really be a problem in the long run though at the projected rate of inflation we see.
Decreased slightly? Da fuck? You know the cost of living and inflation goes up over time right? That would just be crippling people who are just scraping by as it is. I don't think it should be raised to as high as $15, but something that is at least reasonable. I think of it this way, if you take away minimum wage pay for people that are unfortunate enough to be around the poverty line (that's about 45 million people) are going to spend less. What is that going to do to the economy and all the other businesses depending on their business? They'll be seeing less costumers. Now I'm inclined to believe that if you increase minimum wage to a reasonable amount over a period of time already rich as fuck companies ie walmart company/family with net worth of 140 billion aren't going to be crippled by this. By doing so they should all be seeing more business because people actually have the money to spend and buy stuff. It's a cycle, and it's only going to work if you feed into it.
If they are going to raise the minimum wage, they should make it titratable by region. According to MIT's Living Wage Calculator, poverty line is $5 an hour, and living wage is $11.15 where I live. But $11.15 isn't going to get you nearly as far in areas where it cost more to live like Rockland County, NY. where the baseline is estimated @ $14.75/hr.
I would fear what big companies would do if they ever actually passed $15/hr. Remember when Obamacare made it law for employers to provide health insurance, but stupidly left a loophole where they didn't have to for employees working part time? Out of nowhere the 28 hour workweek was the new normal. I can imagine companies like Taco Hell investing in automated drive-thrus.
