Super Smash Brothers Thread: 64, Melee, Brawl, & Smash 4 (Casual and Competitive Discussion)

Damn I love watching competitive Melee.  This weekend had so many good matches.  Too bad PPMD didnt show up.  

and his brother fell asleep before his match against eikelmann so he got dq'd.

pretty strange tournament, but otherwise leffen was on point.

which is sad for twitch since he has convincingly beat eikelman the past few tournaments. it's too my understanding that twitch initally knocked him into losers that same tourney as well

shoulda gone to CEO, shoulda gone to this week's weekly

oh well

No disputing that Leffen ranks among the "Gods" anymore

Watching the Top 8 CEO VODs...

. Westballz made the Falco/Marth matchup look nearly undoable as the set progressed. Seems like he steps up his movement and punishes for every stock he loses.

. Mango is a buster and Plup should've beaten him... all it took was a fair instead of an upsmash and Plup would've been considered demi-god tier. Too bad he can't win against Shroomed, that's also holding him back from hitting the top. His Sheik playstyle is probably the most entertaining to watch.. can't really watch any other without getting bored for some reason.

Westballz has beaten Mango before but it seems like Mango just clutched it out and the flubs from WB were what made him lose. If Westballz can play perfectly and not lose stocks/get punished super hard for flubs, he'd definitely be a "god" threat like Leffen is. He's probably the flashiest and fastest Falco playing right now.

Getting to Armada v Mango and man, does Mango look exhausted. I've seen the Leffen v Armada set already but idk Leffen seems like he's tailored to beat Armada's Fox specifically and not every spacie he goes up against. For however long Armada has been playing Fox, he's already better than most Foxes out there. I just think he might need more time. We'll see how EVO goes.

When's the next big tournament? Evo?

FC is this weekend (Armada, Leffen, Hbox, etc.).

also Stagga, please try to avoid overly general posts like yours in this thread. i just think its silly for anybody to be viewing the competitive melee scene today as if it were 2 years ago, with all the "god tier" terminology and such. i could have dismantled your posts with counter arguments but the sweeping generalities you made proved ignorant enough. 

Mango is definitely not a buster lmao. I know he makes jokes about it but the truth is he is putting so much time into streaming rather than actual practicing as much as he used to. He is a father now and he is looking out for his son, and streaming is where most of his money comes from ( estimates from people seem to agree he makes 50k-70k a year just from streaming). He can still win EVO if he is playing on point, but the only person I don't think he can beat at the moment is Armada. Now hat Armada's fox has proven it's amazing he is now trapped in a counterpick war unless he figures out he to get his number. If Mango loses game 1 it's basically GG because Armada can just counterpick Peach/Fox depending on the stage and his character choice. 

If Mango doesn't figure out something quick then Armada or Leffen are going to take EVO. All 6 of the gods have been inconsistent lately besides Armada. He is just amazing at keeping his composure and clutching out wins.  My top 3 picks for EVO champion would be 1) Armada 2) PPMD 3) Leffen

I sincerely hope that PPMD can overcome his depression and has been training hard because I think he is the only one that can stop Armada and Leffen from taking EVO

I also really hope tournaments like Big House and Super Smash Con take Apex's spot as the premiere Smash tournaments After all the drama with Apex and players like Amsa, Nieteno, and NAKAT  not receiving payments from their winnings, there really should be no need for Apex to exist anymore. Apex 2015 almost didn't happen because Alex Strife is a cheap bastard and booked a shitty venue that was clearly condemned, it's just truly unacceptable 
Wait really? Is Apex like AGL?

I see your point, Rhis. I sound like an ignorant twitch kid, but honestly I was calling Mango a buster in jest. I mean yeah he hypes himself up to be the GOAT (and arguably, he is if you look at tournament placings overall) but I understand he has other responsibilities and a friggin kid. Placing Top 8, hell, Top 32 at any national is fucking crazy and I couldn't hope to reach that spot without years of perfect practice. If your counterarguments have something to do with game specifics I'd like to hear them.

The "god/demigod tier" thing is just a lazy way for me to say "players that consistently place top 8 in every major they show up at".

Also, m2k's really concerned about his hands, but not "disappointing his fans"... jeez man, he needs to take a break and find some time for his mental and physical health.

i'm not entirely sure what you mean, but i doubt it since Alex Strife was outted as a sexual predator a few months ago, ever since then things have not been looking good for Apex

+1 good post.

honestly Mango's ego will never deflate, it has no reason to. If he manages to pull out this Evo win he will literally have no reason to ever try at a tournament again given the current roster of pros.

in regards to M2K, there's no reason to put him in conversation of the Top 5. he's much more in Westballz territory in the the sense that he could probably beat any of the Top 3 on a given day, but not consistently/convincingly  at this point of their careers.

speaking of, mango's fox is looking absolutely ridiculous on stream right now.

+1 good post.

honestly Mango's ego will never deflate, it has no reason to. If he manages to pull out this Evo win he will literally have no reason to ever try at a tournament again given the current roster of pros.

Yeah, agreed. If the EVO 3peat happens I could see him quitting in the near future. He's making way more off streaming/sponsorship than off tourneys.

in regards to M2K, there's no reason to put him in conversation of the Top 5. he's much more in Westballz territory in the the sense that he could probably beat any of the Top 3 on a given day, but not consistently/convincingly  at this point of their careers.

Well, it's a matter of which M2K shows up. Doesn't seem like he's fit to take Top 8 at any major currently, the way he's been discussing his (self-diagnosed) depression, demotivation, and hand pain.

I mean:

no other Marth main can edgeguard the way he does.

if m2k won the lottery and got a blowie from a super model the day of evo (or whatever would put him in a good enough mood that would allow him to play perfect) he could beat anybody on that day, the same could be said for a lot of the Top 8. 

but even he will tell you his Marth today is not as good as it used to be, as evident by his placings since TBH4.

Maybe the guy is just burnt out from playing Smash so many years in a row?
he needs a good drug trip and time away from the game. needs to come back with a fresh mindset because the dude is probably the most knowledgeable in the game, even being a few years removed from the same level of intense training/studying on one game. 

He just doesn't care for melee right now. He wants to play smash 4. We hosted him here in houston for the week of CEO since he couldn't make the flight for doubles and the misunderstanding was that he wanted to make it there for Melee. Fuck that. He had this consistent vibe that he didn't want to be at our locals for the melee tourney other than having some obligation for the people housing him. If we didn't have a smash 4 scene here, he would've been on the first flight home.

There's also no way I can believe M2K is some immaculate being that will just come back balls on fire if he takes a break and then reverts to melee. He needs to care and he needs to practice. Losing a relationship with Axe, Armada, and others just hurt him in caring enough for melee. Smash 4 just appeals more to him since he feels he hasn't reached his full potential in that game. Sure, he might not say this himself, but it's a mentality most people will have when playing at the top at any video game. You get bored if your personal skill ceiling hits a halt. 

how did he lose his relationship with Axe? i thought they practiced together often. 
i'm not sure but he also lost a relationship with Zero as well. They were living together for a little bit and Zero moved out promptly and refuses to team with him now as well
and zero has won something like 40 smash4 tourneys in a row so obviously he knows what hes doing.
Is Smash 4 really not that competitive?

Zero is just a huuuuge exception to the rule, people are comparing his run to the greatest fighting games runs of all time. zero was an amazing brawl player and a better than average melee player, but he devoted 100% of his time to S4 from the start and it has clearly paid off (somewhat similar to M2K when brawl came out, but I wasn't around back then so i can't make the comparison accurately). you also have to consider that there haven't been that many huge S4 tournaments, a lot of his wins are from smaller tourneys. Zero was also one of the first players to ever get a crack at S4, with his being attendance at Nintendo's Invitational last year.

ive also heard Zero state that he would retire from S4 for a bit if he won Evo to concentrate on Melee, but the dude is a bit unstable in what he says to the public so idk how much weight to take in that. 

in my opinion, which is only in playing S4 at other peoples' houses, the game is somewhere between Brawl and Melee with pace HEAVYILY leaning towards Brawl in gameplay. to me, it isn't that surprising that Zero is the best S4 player given his knowledge of Brawl's pace, but his streak of singles tournaments wins is an amazing show of mental consistency.

Ok that makes a lot of sense to me.  Thanks for the breakdown.  
thanks it was fun to write lol. i just realized how devoutly i know the current pro smash scene hah.
That's kinda where I want to be as well. I just recently got into the scene, but I really just play Melee with my roommate and follow it online.
If you want to stay up to date on the Melee/Smash 4 scene the best thing to do would be to follow all the big channels on youtube (VGBC, CT, TLOC etc) and all the top players/figureheads on twitter. 
or/also stalk reddit and streams like i do.
I'm subbed to VG Boot Camp on YouTube.  What are the other two?

Clash Tournaments and Tourney Locator. CT is more Smash 4 orientated and Tourney Locator is mostly Melee.

also ShowdownSmash, which is easily the best Melee related channel imo. I'm watching The Foundry every Tuesday night 

Ok, thank you so much. I will deffy check them out.

i went to zhu/cactuar's smash practice with my two friends to play friendlies last night. i played really bad in singles as fox (probably the worst i've played in months) and got 4 stocked twice while i was there. i got a lot of pointers for things to improve on and learned  a lot about the fox/falco and fox/falcon matchup. i really recommend if you're trying to get better, rather than only studying matches and reading up on match ups and beating your friends, actually go to tournaments or meetups and swallow your pride, get bodied and ask for advice on what you could have done.

did anybody catch Mango almost make the greatest play of all time yesterday in doubles?

Oh my god I saw it, unreal....