Super Smash Brothers Thread: 64, Melee, Brawl, & Smash 4 (Casual and Competitive Discussion)

Probably CEO, not GOML since M2K said he's not attending.

 

Broke my controller after getting backthrow gimped by jumping early for the millionth time last night. I don't deserve to play if I don't adapt. Ordered a new one, but I'm not going to play until I receive it in the mail Friday.

My mentality is total crap, so is my tech skill. I can do a bunch of shit without context, but what does it matter? If I can't do what I want to do at the moment I need it, then my tech skill is shit. It's black and white/absolute thinking, but it's actually true - if I can't control what I want to do, if I'm not consistent with it, and if I'm doing it at the wrong times, how is my tech good? The answer is that it's not.

So breaking my controller (which I did outside away from everyone, just threw it a couple times silently) is giving me a mandatory break to relax, reassess my mental state, think about how to do the tech I need to, and to reset my bad habits. I may start from scratch and rethink every character I want to play, but I'm likely going to stick with spacies and Marth.

 

I ended up playing with my friend's gamecube (not smash 4) controller and I ended up being slowed down so much by it (no shield drops, looser stick) that I ended up playing better.

 

On a less self-loathing note, here are some cool clips I got a week ago or so:

might as well shine-turnaround there. better option coverage and even steezier imo.

might as well shine-turnaround there. better option coverage and even steezier imo.

yeah shine turnaround dair would've been sick but i don't think i could've gotten it out in time, plus falco's back is his strongest position. if he's facing forward he's got ftilt/dtilt, lasers, shine, and nair, but backwards he's got utilt, shine, and bair which are all more powerful options for edgeguarding and defensive play.

but you can turnaround at 6 frames with 2/3 of what you suggested backwards lol.

unwarranted advice that you don't have to read: I think you could really benefit from playing w/ literally zero tech for a couple games and work purely on punish/reads, stagga. It's insane to me that I've seen a vid in this thread of you doing a moonwalk bair w/ fox  but you can argue about a 6-frame window bc of theoretical option coverage that makes such little difference. I feel if your punish game were a third of your tech flaunting game you'd improve tenfold.

but you can turnaround at 6 frames with 2/3 of what you suggested backwards lol.

unwarranted advice that you don't have to read: I think you could really benefit from playing w/ literally zero tech for a couple games and work purely on punish/reads, stagga. It's insane to me that I've seen a vid in this thread of you doing a moonwalk bair w/ fox  but you can argue about a 6-frame window bc of theoretical option coverage that makes such little difference. I feel if your punish game were a third of your tech flaunting game you'd improve tenfold.

I agree. Tech covers up a lot of my poor fundamentals/lack of BnB shit I do. Hate knowing that I can fill up space with low lag hitboxes pretty consistently, but always end up overcommitting at the dumbest times.

Overcomplicating shit is the #1 overall issue I have, which is less about me overthinking and more about trying to explore options to beat out something common, ex: I want more ways to beat shieldgrab than just overshoot/undershoot aerial/aerial ff shine/shinegrab/dash dance/laser shinegrab.

Here's some friendly games with a guy I play fairly often (he ended up winning a mini-bracket we ran two nights ago that I didn't enter). Not really serious considering I was using a borrowed controller that couldn't shield drop consistently, which is essential to how I use platforms now.

Just from skimming over it, I know I need to improve my anti-aerial game - which wasn't bad with falco, but severely lacked with the other characters I play (I really don't like my fox anymore). I hate the dumb stuff he does like dthrow/dsmash which only covers tech roll in or in place, or the unwarranted falcon punches. I wish I was better at stuffing aerial spam. My favorite thing to do in neutral as falco now is laser ftilt which is a godlike poke.

ahh Falcon v Falco, the ultimate who is going to punch who the hardest. can't really take too much away from friendlies but one thing i notice is that you don't abuse/spam things that 100% work. you've said you recognize tools like u-tilt but i barely see them used at times i think you could bust them out. i would say dont be afraid to be more lame with Falco. You have the tools to bust out ridiculous shit, but try brining out the basics a little bit more and wall people out with bairs/nairs/lazers and basic shit.

marth on the other hand i cant speak as much to but ill say i know how much it sucks to try to space with marth with an unfamiliar controller.  i do think your spacing w/ marth was good though, you just need to let the game come to you more. at one point you had falcon shielding on top platform off your spawn and you dropped and threw out two moves when all you had to do was grab.

fox was good looking as well, but again you just dont abuse your hitboxes in simple ways like you could. again again, hard to take anything away from these consider how friendly they are.

regardless, fuck that is a sexy falcon even though he wasn't trying in the slightest. please surprise me and just tell me that is you, stagga.

i think what im trying to get at is that you need to approach the game a bit differently. rather than asking "what beats shieldgrab", i think you should be asking "how can i punish somebody that is baiting shieldgrab", be that by baiting out the grab early with a dash dance or just going in and grabbing him before he gets the chance to get you. you don't even need shine-grab, if you see the guy shield just go in and jcg/dg em.

again, this is just another approach. clearly you're a skilled player, i just think you are a bit tunnel visioned in your game and could use as many eyes as possible with approaches.

Vega's pretty good, but he's not PR ranked, nor does he really show up at tournaments. He always goes for style, even if it's clear that whatever he's going to throw out is not going to connect.

Simplifying my defense with uptilt/bair/laser walls as falco would probably help a lot. Thanks so much, Rhis.

LOL the whole last game I was like I feel like I can faintly hear Death Grips in the background.

but yeah definitely what Rhis said. From my personal experience, taking the hax money approach of consistently trying to hit hard tech in games doesn't work  if you haven't first built good fundamentals, especially a good defense.  Melee simplified:  pick up on what your opponent is going to do and create the best answer for that that works for you.

New controller I received yesterday (White smash 4 import from Japan, brand new) is godlike and does nearly everything I want it to do. Shield drops are ez pz, triggers have no issues at all. Played much better after I got used to the stiffer stick.
i def find those sm4 controllers to be pretty damn good, i have 2 and they're fairly consistent.
I have one too and it's good but I use my emerald one, it's way sexier and the triggers on the smash 4 ones feel a bit too springy (which is easily fixable with the right tools)

Yeah, OG controllers are nice too. I wanna buy a silver or black one off of ebay in the future and combine the two for ultra-dankness. Having older triggers, a broken-in stickbox, and newer, shield-drop-capable faceplate is the ideal controller build.

Honestly, from playing for 4 hours or so of friendlies, the only problem with my new controller is the stick's stiffness. I can dash dance fine and precisely, but jumping out of aerial shine, turnaround laser, or firestalls messed up occasionally. That'll remedy itself in time.

 

Went to Versus Gaming Center tonight and played a bunch of friendlies with PR players and other scrubs. I did get thrashed by the PR ranked players, but I was able to make it look like it wasn't a blowout, taking stocks here and there. I beat people roughly on my skill level 60:40, I'd say - lots of close games. One player I play locally improved his Fox a bit, but I know his shine-hop-shine pressure is pretty fraudulent. He was very fullhop heavy, which was hard to play against because it's a lot different from other Fox players I usually play. I either got blown out by him or went down to last hit.

Overall I'd say my Falco is looking good, my Fox has the capability to play well but isn't good enough to be full-time, and I don't know how to utilize Marth's tools for mindgames when it comes to playing him. I need to work on comboing floaties (double jump vs. fullhop) and understand team combos more.

Notes:

  • Fix the aerial shine jump problems I'm having. Tap jump > Y button in this case.
  • Fix firestalling and grind out better dbl lasers from ledge + don't be afraid to practice ledgedashing in friendlies.
  • Use better edgeguard options - uptilt works only for side-b recovery and at the very edge, dsmash covers ledge as well. Ftilt and ledgehop bair/nair are my best friends.
  • More shinegrab - more practical than multishining.
  • Lower lasers.
  • Mix up shield pressure more. jab -> shine -> grab/fadeaway aerial or jab -> dtilt -> fsmash or laser shine -> grab should be combinations to try on shields.
Just bought a used black GC controller off of craigslist. It works similar to my white controller, but with inconsistent shield drops on the right side, a broken-in stick and buttery triggers. 

Fucking around in 20XX 3.02 just comboing with Fox and I happened to get a disgustingly low Armada shine. I seriously believe Armada shines are ez af to set up, you just need an ftilt/backair off stage and a read on when they begin to firefox instead of their double jump. Ledge drop shine is still safer but Armada shinespikes give one more freedom to aim.

The bubble offstage was seriously about to pop that's how low it was lmfao

​semi-related note: the fox dittos sfat/leffen played are sick and show a lot of tech in the punish/edgeguard game i've never seen before.

 

also found an odd way to grab ledge:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30iscQBf_Ig

leffen is savage but does I kind of agree with everything he says

GOML was so sick. Props to n0ne for taking a set from m2k, the first falcon to do it in a decade. Congrats to leffen for his triumphant comeback, beating all 4 gods in attendance. Congrats to Lucky for outplacing Armada LMFAO
That was one of the best tournaments I've seen i na while.  So much hype.
Played with Rhis again yesterday.  I see myself improving a lot, but I feel like I'm getting to the point where I'm finally understand how much about Melee I actually don't know.  

i normally don't care very much about commentary and hate when reddit critiques it, but i will say that GOML had some of the best top 8 commentary that i've heard in a WHILE. d1 + blur is almost as good as d1 + prog IMO

GOML was sick. as a mango fanboy, i wasn't too upset to see mango go out considering he went out in style taking out his 2 rivals.  leffen was playing incredibly well, he looks like he did leading up to EVO when he was looking unbeatable.

leffen's fox does this thing (they pointed this out on commentary and i've noticed it watching him) where he seems to bait and tease approaches better than any other fox. time to go study his matches and figure out how he does that so i can steal it;-)

falcon mains making top 8 do so much for the scene. stuff like n0ne beating m2k reminds me that this is a fighting game and not your generic wholesome esport. 

i've learned a lot from watching wizzy and n0ne's runs over and over again. I can only hope to do something similar here in texas in the years to come.

Leffen is a center stage control specialist. No one can get their opponent to run to center stage to get uptilted like he does.

I feel like I'm also improving as far as execution and mindgames go. I don't miss doubleshines in friendlies at all - and if I do, it's always covered by an accidental SH drill, lol.

 Played against a player yesterday that's pretty similar to where I was a few months ago (great potential tech skill, not great at mindgaming, SDs a lot) and ended up 3-0ing him in a fox v falco set. I got a quad shine on his shield at one point but got grabbed after the fourth shine, lmfao

 

What's also been helping is that the best player in my region lives 10 minutes away and also sells weed 

played against the guy who made this fucking video yesterday

shine waveland shine waveland below platform stickywalks in between followups. never missed multishines, swagged out with his falco and fox hard

fucker is too good at tech for his own good

What's the sickest thing you've ever done in game?

Was playing netplay friendlies with a guy just running back Fox dittos on Yoshi's and I ended up firefoxing onto randall, upsmashing, and then landed an armada shine and i screamed

20xx hack pack is important af
maaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnngggoooooooo

wizzy is fucking disgusting... he's definitely best c. falcon at the moment. this was a monumental tournament for him.

 

excellent script writing by scar, 9/10 tournament - would've only been better if m2k had kept faith in his marth, won against armada, and if there was m2k/mango gfs

 

mango's marth is actually fucking nuts and does a lot of risky shit that works because it's anti-meta

 

wizzy's is the hbox of Falcons. regardless, i feel like i so much watching him play, his spacing is ridiculous.

mango's marth is ridiculous yes, he was def on fire today. at the same time, armada's peach was getting half-bodied by m2k's marth also and i didnt think he was playing too great overall outside of spacies. it is nuts though how in the span of a year mango has completely flipped the counterpick war with Armada into his favor.

watching wizzy v hbox it's so clear how well he knew both Puff's and HBox's weak points and exploited it to the fullest. That ONE grab game 1 was absolutely mindblowing.

I do agree on Armada not looking in tip-top shape, but Armada playing at a 6 or 7 out of 10 was enough to get him to Winner's/Grand Finals, which is scary to think about. Perhaps he's saving his peak play for EVO.  Mango now has multiple viable options in the counterpick war, which is truly invaluable.

Marth for Fox/Peach FD

Fox for dittos/Peach non-FD

Falco for Fox/Peach on a low ceiling stage

Falcon to throw away games :^)

oh my god every time i upthrow and miss a free followup i want to castrate myself and rip out my eyes

what happens in game and what happens in my head are two completely different things

oh my god every time i upthrow and miss a free followup i want to castrate myself and rip out my eyes

what happens in game and what happens in my head are two completely different things

just try to flow with it man, once you see that you haven't followed up immediately change up whatever you were fishing for and get yourself back to a safe position. you just won the neutral, its terrible to be in the mindset even after a missed grab punish.